Timewasters in Atlanta

Over Thanksgiving, I went to visit friends in Atlanta. My logistics this time were actually very good, I had been hooked up to “apartment-sit” in one of the hottest lofts in town and had the place mostly to myself. This made it all the more frustrating when I encountered more flakes and more timewasters.

Initially, Tinder in Atlanta produced results that far surpassed my expectations, even knowing that the city has favorable gender ratios: a whopping 103 single women for every 100 single men aged 18-34. I selectively swiped every woman within a seven mile radius of my apartment and got 55 matches in five days. In comparison, in San Francisco I get about 25-40 matches per week.

I’m sure at least some of this has to do with the fact that I tend to do well with black women, and the ratio for black women to black men is staggering in Atlanta (115:100 for the 18-34 age range).

In any case, I fired off a bunch of openers and immediately had a bunch of girls go cold. The holidays are definitely tough for Game. I get one number from a black 5.5. We exchanged about ~10 lines, I established that I was in town for a short time to prevent any misunderstandings on her end, and I invite her out for a drink. She responds: Yeah we totally can. I’m a bartender, if you wanna come by my bar tomorrow you’re more than welcome.

I wasn’t keen on meeting on her terms, so I let her sit for a day, then told her I had plans and we could reschedule for another day. Transitioned to text, a photo ping and some short chitchat later and we schedule for the day after Thanksgiving. I try to get her over to a bar at my apartment, but she resists:

2017-11-25 22.42.04

At this point, I knew this was probably a lost cause, but I had no other plans and decided to see it through. This girl was somewhat of a “dominant”, in Blackdragon’s terms. I don’t go out with many of these girls and don’t tend to do well with them.

I met her at her bar and immediately realized why it was a bad idea: she had just gotten off work and kept getting distracted by her coworkers and group of regulars coming in. Several times during the date she ran off to hug or talk to other people that she knew. I didn’t want this to keep happening, so I suggested we bounce to another bar across the street. She complied, but still was “leading” the interaction. It was her city, her scene, and at the other bar she still knew all the bartenders and was having fun giving me a tour of the place. Finally, we bounced to a third location where she knew less people and I was able to sit her down for a drink.

I ran very good date game. Relaxed posture, alpha body language, asked her questions. I did very little talking, and she exclaimed multiple times how she was doing all the talking and she wanted to know more about me, upon which I continued redirecting all the questions to her.

To transition into sex talk, I asked about her experiences on Tinder. She started half-drunkenly rambling about  how there’s an “expectation” that goes along with meeting someone from out of town that’s just visiting, but she was just meeting me to show me a around the bars and have fun, blah blah blah, then she made a very abrupt transition to talking about how she’s been celibate for 7 months, and how she’s been raped in the past, essentially sub-communicating that she doesn’t want to have sex.

Date over.

Or was it? I decided to plow through this one, because I had nothing else to do that night and I was curious to see if I could overcome the crazy. I smiled and nodded and ignored her objections, and continued on talking about different things as I ramped up the kino.

I fucked up a couple of times at this point: the first time when I touched her hair and she got mad, telling me I should know to never touch a black girl’s hair. I should know that, because I’ve made the same mistake with multiple black girls before. The second is when I clumsily spilled her drink all over her lap and pants. I laughed it off and the bartender made her another one for free (I spent a total of $0 on this date, which was a plus).

I used two mini-routines for the first time that I may try out more: the first was getting up to go to the bathroom and telling her that when I got back I was going to kiss her. She rolled her eyes. The second I made up myself: after I got back, we talked for another 10 minutes or so, then we started talking about marriage and kids, and I started going into a routine about how we were going to marry in Vegas, and they were going to say “Kiss the bride!” At which point I leaned in and kissed her and she reciprocated very strongly. We broke it off after a couple seconds, mainly her pulling away, but I could feel she was into it. After five minutes of talking, I tried again and she got even more into it, but pulled away again, saying “I don’t want to be the type of girl that makes out in bars, I hate when people do that.” I agreed, and at some point I told her we were leaving. She asked where we were going and I gave some sort of excuse.

I’m not sure what my plan was at this point. I knew she lived a couple of blocks away and I was trying to get her to pull me back to her house. As I mentioned in my previous post, I still have no idea how to effectively get a girl to invite me to her house. We walked back to the bar where she worked and we both used the bathroom. She sat down on a stool and I said “So, are you going to show me your place?” She vigorously shook her head no. “OK, I guess we’re Ubering to mine then.” Her response: “No, I told you I don’t do that, remember?”

Date actually over.

I continue to be amazed at girls who willingly go out with a guy visiting their city, on TINDER OF ALL PLACES, and aren’t down to fuck.

Without skipping a beat, I said “OK, I’m going to head out.” The look on her face soured. “Why?” I tell her I’m going to hang out with my friends, then walk briskly out of the bar and leave her to herself.

She probably talked shit about me with all her coworkers and lamented the lack of good guys on Tinder. Good. Hope she learned a lesson.

I then ended the trip by scheduling a date the next day with a Colombian girl, who cancelled five hours before the date after grilling me with questions and finding out I didn’t live in Atlanta (despite me telling her in our initial conversation).

So I leave Atlanta empty-handed. This city has major potential, but it still continues to be difficult, nigh-impossible for an man of average facial attractiveness (me) to hook up with a girl from Tinder while visiting a North American city.

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Vacation Game with bad logistics: +1 Argentinian Flag

One aspect of Game I haven’t quite figured out yet is how to improve my success rate despite bad housing logistics.

Unlike many others in this sphere, I don’t make women the focal point of my life, much less my vacation time. I travel often, but mostly with friends, and we often share AirBnBs or rooms.

Such was the case in Buenos Aires last week, where I shared a house with a dozen-plus friends. I was busy nearly ten hours a day exploring the city and doing whatever one does on their first trip to Argentina, but I was also keen on capturing my Argentinian flag in my free time.

Pre-trip, I fired up Tinder and spoofed my location to Buenos Aires, selectively swiping, as well as set my Instagram automation to follow every girl with an Instagram linked to her Tinder.

I quickly confirmed all that I had read about the city: the girls were of middling quality, somewhat arrogant, and not at all responsive to sexual talk or direct openers. In a week, I collected ~40+ matches and five numbers. All in all, about 50% better than I would have done in San Francisco, and girls were about 50% more receptive to meeting up as well.

I then ran into the first logistical hurdle: nearly every girl in Latin America lives with her parents. I filtered for this by directly asking probing questions about each girl’s housing situation. Probably not the most tactful way to do it, but as I only had a few nights available, I didn’t want to wind up on a date where I couldn’t go back to a girl’s place.

I eventually ended up making plans with a big-booty 20-year-old Colombian. In retrospect, she was tight-lipped with her responses and was taking a while to respond to each of my messages, but eventually did agree to a date and a location about an hour and a half before we were supposed to meet…

…only to cancel (ambiguously) 45 minutes before we were supposed to meet, saying “Oye no puedo estar a las 10 disculpa“. In Spanish, this could have sounded like she was simply saying she wouldn’t arrive on time, so I played dumb and asked how long she needed, but knew it was probably toast. The flakes of San Franciso had followed me down below the equator.

I hail-mary messaged a couple other girls in my phone, and one responded: a 35-year old Argentinian introvert “good girl” who had just moved to Buenos Aires from a small town. She was immediately keen to meet up, as she was about to go to bed at 10 PM on a Saturday night. I told her to let me know where she lived and I would pick out a bar.

Then I ran into the other logistical hurdle: there were LITERALLY no bars in her neighborhood. Like, none. I’ve never encountered this in a city before (although the complete lack of acceptable date venues in many cities will be a topic for a future blog post). I dumbfoundedly scrolled through Google Maps for ten minutes before giving up and telling her to just meet me at a metro stop and we’d figure it out from there.

We meet and I immediately start leading and teasing her. I tell her to follow me and that I’ll use my magic powers to find us a place. We walk and talk for ten minutes before I finally stumble upon a halfway decent bar. She doesn’t drink, and neither do I, so two waters it is.

She’s very introverted and gives tight-lipped responses to my questions. A year ago, I might have struggled with a girl like this and tried to play the role of the dancing monkey, attempting to defuse the awkward situation with humor, but after absorbing more knowledge, particularly from Blackdragon, I soldier on, asking more and more questions and identifying topics of interest (for her: books, heavy metal, family) and getting her to open up. I segué into relationship talk. She’s had various boyfriends, she meets them through friends or at heavy metal concerts, she doesn’t want a relationship (bingo). She averts my more direct questions about sex, but we’re able to skirt around the issue and I don’t press it.

Eventually, I motion to her and say “Let’s go.” I used to ask girls if they wanted to leave (per Roosh’s “Bang”, the first Game book I read). Now, I don’t ask. I lead. She asks where we’re going and I tell her we’re going for a walk. We meander towards her place, and when we’re a few blocks away, she reveals that we can’t go to her place, because she lives in a shared house and her landlord doesn’t allow her to have guests. Ridiculous Latin American living situations strike again. After more probing, I probably could have convinced her to sneak me in, but all of her housemates were hanging out on the steps and she was embarrassed. Definitely a secret society girl.

I remain non-reactive and tell her I’ll escort her to her place. She decides to wait for my Uber with me, and my non-reactiveness immediately provokes a reaction from her: she clutches onto me and starts to hug her head to my chest (she’s about 5’2″). I reach down, lift her chin up, and start kissing her. She’s into it. She says: “Para, o me vas a dar ganas.” (Basically “stop, you’re turning me on.”) At this point I look at my phone and verify that my friends are all out at dinner. I convince her to jump in my Uber and go back to my place, and that if no one was there, I could sneak her in.

We get to my AirBnB, and to my dismay, 3-4 of my buddies are hanging out in the living room. Somehow, their backs are turned and I sneak her by them. I pull her into my room and pull her clothes off. The good girl is wearing a sexy black thong, meaning she came out with the intention of getting fucked. I compliment her on this, and she takes it graciously.  I escalate to sex in what may be a new personal record, fueled by the fear of my roommates walking in and catching us in the act.

Not my best performance, and probably not her best either. As we roll back out the door, I have to choice but to walk her by everyone hanging out in the living room. Cue some good-natured ribbing and verbal high fives for the rest of the night.

+1 Argentinian flag.

Did I learn anything from this experience? Only that I’m still bad at convincing girls to invite me back to their places. I’d like to learn more about how to do this, if anyone has any advice.

Yohami breaks down the texts before a flake

Yohami and I had an email exchange about one of my texts in the Flaketober post. He’s given me permission to post it here (edited for clarity) for further perspective and learning.

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Yohami: Hey man, practice not asking questions – 4 texts, 3 are questions. Big no-go

Pancake Mouse: I’m really, really struggling with seeing how the “no questions” thing has benefits. It just seems so arbitrary. Examples on how these questions could be converted into statements?

I honestly don’t get how to get around asking questions when trying to figure out logistics. I need to figure out when girls are free. Proposing some random time and day without checking their schedule demonstrates a big lack of social awareness, right? The only thing I could think of is saying: “I can do tomorrow or Sunday, let me know which works”, but that really doesn’t seem fundamentally different than “Are you free tomorrow or Sunday?”

The last text was an anti-flake text to see if I should even bother going, I just wanted to force her hand by asking her directly.

Yohami: First – note how none of these girls are asking questions? think about that. So why are you asking them questions?

Pancake: To build rapport. Remember, these girls are all from online. These are not girls I know, or even girls I’ve had a daygame interaction with. Girls are reticent to meet up with a stranger online, they need back and forth and comfort-building and an insight into your life.

Yohami: Building rapport is unattractive, breaking rapport is attractive.

All they need is to feel they are interacting with a guy who has more options than they do, and not with a beta / creep. That is all. You are not building comfort with your questions and stories that go nowhere – they are not investing back. There’s no comfort. They are not coming to you for comfort. They are coming to you for dick. In the moment they are coming to you to ask about the value of your dick, you offer comfort.

You’re asking questions because you want the conversation to keep going and you think it would stall unless you ask things. So you ask something, they reply with a single word. Then you must ask something else. This is ‘interview mode’ and is beta.

Sometimes you interject a little story but serves no purpose, they don’t pay attention to it, you go back to asking things. In all these exchanges they sound like a ‘cool guy’ and you like a groupie.

The desired state of mind is that you act like them and they act like you – that’s what in pickup is called ‘reverse the script’ except it’s not about a script, it’s about value. They have the value and you have none, and you’re chasing so you can get some. But because of the nature of female / male inter-dynamics, by doing so you make yourself non-eligible. (With the only exception of the girls that would fuck you anyway – the girls who feel they are below your status anyway, regardless of your chasing behavior.0

But if you act like you have more value, then the other girls will react to that, and start flipping the script themselves, and ask questions, and chase.

Pancake: Doesn’t work online in my experience. Girls won’t start asking you questions, because they have dozens of other options. If you sit there waiting for them to chase you or ask questions, they will ghost and you’ll never meet up with them.

Yohami: The reason they are not asking questions is they perceive you as low value. You have to act as if you have value. “sit there and wait for them to ask questions” is low value too. How to signal you have value? flirt, tease, take command. You’re doing very little of that.

Pancake: I have zero value online, until I meet up with them in person and prove it. They have literally thousands of Chads they could swipe through (I have swiped through male profiles here and I’m about top 35% in my city as far as looks/profile, and I have maxed out pretty much everything I can).

Yohami: If that was true they wouldn’t be pinging you back. They are talking you you because you do have value. What you’re not doing is acting the part.

“until I meet up in person and prove it”: No, you have nothing to prove to them. They have all to prove to you.

Breakdown:

1

Don’t know what happen before this moment, but Im sure whatever she did, it wasn’t “the best choice she’ll ever have made” so likely you’re giving her free validation for no reason.

If you’re going to give her validation, do so when she’s compliant. Likewise punish anything non-compliant.

The line that follows is weak, “so” “we should” “probably” (this word is shit) “meet up” (wtf are you using meet-up, that’s a semi corporate, informal, non sexual, casual thing, what you’re doing is arranging a fuck date), “at some point” weak and imprecise, “huh”?

So what is good about is that you’re going forward and pushing to meet. But every word there is killing you. Her response is brutal, “probably” and then nothing.

What would be better to set this up? something like this, which is the line that I used all the time:

You: When are you free? I’ll take you out 😉

When are you free is a question but the line ends with a call to action. This is not “meet up for coffee tea at some dope place”, the “I’ll take you out” means you’re going to fuck her, and she knows it. And it’s not a question – thus is a fact. When she replies to WHEN she’s telling you when you will fuck her.

Anyway she replied “probably” and left it at that. With an emoticon it would be flirting. Dry like that, it’s brutal and sad.

2

She’s showing VERY little interest, but you remain in interview mode, which means you’re chasing. You ask “are you free tomorrow or sunday“. So what if she says “no”?

If she says no, then what? do you ask “monday or tuesday”? “No.” “wednesday or thursday?” “No.” “friday or saturday… I can go on?”

The point here is all you’re showing is that you’ll accommodate to her. Which is low value.

3

“Tomorrow afternoon” means she’s down to fuck. Here you reply

“That works” is free validation
“Let’s grab a QUICK tea” (fuck man) “or coffee” (yeah why not add more beverages? try also offering orange juice?)
“What time is good for you?”

I even get exhausted with these.

Pancake Mouse: I don’t drink. Also, for most girls nowadays I’m running Blackdragon’s two-date model, which involves a short, one-hour meetup over a drink (at night) or coffee (daytime), then scheduling second date at your place and fucking her. This actually works quite nicely for me because of my logistics (I don’t have any bars near my place to pull girls easily back to), and the fact that I don’t drink.
However, Magnum doesn’t drink either and he said he still does most of his first dates at bars (he also does two-date model), and is just open about the fact that he doesn’t drink. So I’ll probably start doing this.

Yohami: I mean who gives a fuck about tea or coffee, and why do you insert the QUICK word there. I infer that’s some type of false time constraint. I perceived it as something to minimize friction, so it’s a sales move, and feels wrong

4

But SHE IS so down to fuck she’s putting up with it, just note the lack of investment.

To her lack of investment you reply with MORE investment, “dope spot” and volunteer a lot of information.

She’s giving very little and you’re giving a ton.

Now she had enough and goes silent, you keep on the chase / sale

5
Here’s a proposed chat:

—————————-

You: when are you free? I’ll take you out 😉 (The call to action is in line 1, there’s no wandering around the bush.)
Her: tomorrow
You: the whole day? you’ve got way too much free time (She’s unspecific like your girls tend to do, I call her on it but don’t go chasing offering more options, instead do a little neg to make her qualify)
Her: haha 🙂 in the afternoon (She offers the afternoon. Afternoon is not sexy, I ignore that and set it for a compromise, 7pm)
You: aight, I know a place. See you at XX at 7pm
Her: I can’t 7pm (She doesn’t offer a raincheck)
You: ? (I reply a single “?”, less text that she sent)
Her: 3 pm works? (She commits a raincheck, offering 3pm date)
You: ehm! sure. dress sexy! (I begrudgingly accept the time change, demand that she does something, but the setup is funny)
Her: always 🙂 (She complies)
You: aight cutie, see you there

There’s a TON of negotiation and back and forth, all in less text than what you normally send on your own. And this is imagining a difficult scenario. Here’s a more likely one

You: when are you free? I’ll take you out 😉
Her: (she knows this is about fucking, so the response comes tailored already) Next tuesday
You: nice, see you at XX 8pm, cool?
Her: can’t wait 🙂
You: dress sexy 😉

The only questions I’m asking are for compliance. When she offers compliance, it’s rewarded.

 

Stood up

When it rains, it pours.

Yesterday, I wrote that I was experiencing the biggest drought of my life in terms of flakes, including the “hot girl from Portland”, my last number number in October, who I thought would flake because I had to change the venue last minute.

Well, I was wrong. And then immediately right again. An hour before the meet, I wanted to force her hand and see if I should even bother going to the bar, so I texted “Hopping in the shower, let me know when you’re on your way”. She texted back “Okay” nine minutes later.

We were on!

Except we weren’t. Because she didn’t fucking show up.

Got to the bar, she wasn’t there. Waited the requisite 12 minutes, sent her a text saying “I’m here.”

No response.

Waited the requisite 12 more minutes, called her.

No answer.

I have pretty good frame, but shit like this, combined with a bad month for Game and two months since my dick was last in a vagina, can break a man. I was livid.

This was the first time I’ve been stood up with absolutely no sign of life from the girl. It’s very nearly happened two times before: once, the girl showed up an hour late and brought her fat friend (I immediately left), and the 18-year old model from earlier in the summer slept through her alarm and missed the date. (In the latter case, not being needy actually allowed me to secure the bang, as I just went home and she finally called me an hour later and still wanted to come out.)

94 lifetime dates, and this was a first, and for it to happen during my dryest month — well, there’s something poetic about that.

Just another milestone in the player’s journey.

P.S. here is the full text conversation with the girl, in case anyone can spot something I could have done better. This was a pity because I really thought my Tinder game was good this time. I went for the date pitch immediately, figured out days she was free on Tinder, then went for her number to work out the details.

Flaketober

I have an abnormally low rate of getting girls out on dates, and I’m trying to figure out why this is.

So here are all 25 numbers I collected in October (all from online), my notes, and a screenshot of the texts before the flake, if relevant.

I’ve categorized these the following ways:

  • Ghost – she stops responding before or after I pitch the date
  • Flake – she flakes on an actual date where we had plans set
  • Met
  • I lost interest
  • In Play
  1. French au pair from Instagram. I think I pitched four different nights, none of them worked for her, then I went away for four days, pinged her again, and she didn’t respond. Ghost.
  2. Pitched homemade gourmet food at my place for this girl. She responded positively on Tinder, she amped up the sexuality, I spiked back, then she stopped responding when I pitched the date. Ghost.
  3. Mexican girl from Instagram. Met up for daytime coffee three weeks ago. She hasn’t made it work since for a day 2, likely because she lives 20 miles away, has no car, and doesn’t know how to use public transport. Met.
  4. Cal student from Instagram. Never responded to initial transition text, but then sent me “Hi” on Instagram two weeks in a row. I responded each time and she didn’t respond back. Ghost.
  5. Instagram. Suspected she was a catfish because she was hot, had no tagged photos, and only guys commenting on her photos. Started texting, she asked me to send her money so she could eat dinner, out of nowhere, then backpedaled when I called her out on it. Verified via her Instagram stories later that she was actually real. I lost interest.
  6. Colombian girl planning on visiting SF and swiping here from Tinder. Got her WhatsApp to take her out when she got here, then she stopped responding after two texts. Ghost.
  7. Tinder girl, didn’t respond to initial transition text. Ghost.
  8. Turned out to be a male-to-female transsexual, didn’t inform me of this until we were already supposed to meet up. Claimed it was on her Tinder profile (it wasn’t), and then said “Tinder fucked me again.” I lost interest.
  9. Tinder girl that claimed she was in a committed relationship and was looking for “friends” in her bio. Didn’t respond to initial transition text. Responded to respawn text I sent a week later, I asked for her Instagram, messaged her on there, she didn’t respond. Ghost.
  10. Instagram close, didn’t respond to transition text. Ghost.
  11. USF student. Chatting for a bit, I went out of town, then pinged her with a photo and upon response, said “we should meet up later”. She couldn’t, gave an ambiguous response, then didn’t respond to my request for clarification. Ghost.
  12. Instagram close who lives ~25 miles away. I texted her, no response. I follow up on Instagram, turns out she sent me the wrong number. Then, we make plans, but my phone had a bug where I was missing random text messages. Takes us a week to clear that one up, I make plans again, she tentatively confirms, saying she might be sick, then the morning of, cancels, saying she’s sick. Flake.
  13. Italian au-pair. Chatting for a bit, I got busy and waited five days to respond to her text and she didn’t respond after that. This one’s on me. Ghost.
  14. Stopped responding after a few texts. Ghost.
  15. Texted back and forth for a week. She invited me to a bar on a Wednesday, I couldn’t make it, asked to reschedule, she said she’d let me know. She respawned with “peekaboo”, I responded, no response from her. Ghost.
  16. Cute 22-year old from Tinder that was really into my text game. Canceled on date 1 during the week, then asked me at 9 PM Saturday what I was up do (I had plans). I got back to her Sunday and said I was free that night, no response. I respawned a week later, she seemed receptive to a date, I told her time/location, then she didn’t respond to my confirmation text. Flake.
  17. Tinder. Didn’t respond to initial transition text. This same girl had ghosted me before about a year ago. Ghost.
  18. Turned out to be fatter than expected, I lost interest. I lost interest.
  19. Insane Asian girl with one of the worst commands of English I’ve experienced. Asked for a photo because she only had one up and she stopped responding. Ghost.
  20. Black girl from Atlanta from Instagram. Met.
  21. Hot girl from Sacramento who comes to SF on weekends. Extremely interested on Tinder, flirting with me hard, then stopped responding after one Snapchat exchange (maybe she saw my face and got turned off?) and didn’t respond to photo ping. Ghost.
  22. Travel nurse from the Midwest. Wouldn’t give me a firm date when she’s free because she works all the time. Last weekend when I asked she said she’d be free this weekend, then I asked when she’d be free this weekend and she claims she’s working. In Play, but likely Ghost.
  23. Spanish girl from Bumble. Didn’t respond to my Halloween photo ping. Ghost.
  24. Flaked date 1 because she had to work late, then offered to reschedule. We rescheduled for the next day, then she didn’t respond to my confirmation text and unmatched me on Tinder. Flake.
  25. Hot girl from Portland. Have a date scheduled tonight. I have a feeling she’s going to flake, because I had to venue change the morning of due to logistics. In Play, but likely Flake.

That leaves me with the following statistics:

  • 25 numbers
  • 14 ghosted
  • 3 flaked (two out of the three flaked twice on two different dates)
  • 3 met
  • 3 I lost interest
  • 2 in play (but do not look promising)

Throwing out the two in play and the three where I lost interest, that’s 3 girls out of 20 numbers, which would indicate a flake rate of 85%.

Why so high? Well, a few hypotheses:

  • I live in San Francisco, one of the hardest cities in the US for game
  • I live in San Francisco, one of the flakiest cities in the US in terms of overall culture
  • I go for too many numbers and chase weak leads
  • I’m not decisive enough when asking for the date and leave many girls to languish
  • My text game isn’t good enough

Curious to hear what you guys think.