Yohami breaks down the texts before a flake

Yohami and I had an email exchange about one of my texts in the Flaketober post. He’s given me permission to post it here (edited for clarity) for further perspective and learning.

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Yohami: Hey man, practice not asking questions – 4 texts, 3 are questions. Big no-go

Pancake Mouse: I’m really, really struggling with seeing how the “no questions” thing has benefits. It just seems so arbitrary. Examples on how these questions could be converted into statements?

I honestly don’t get how to get around asking questions when trying to figure out logistics. I need to figure out when girls are free. Proposing some random time and day without checking their schedule demonstrates a big lack of social awareness, right? The only thing I could think of is saying: “I can do tomorrow or Sunday, let me know which works”, but that really doesn’t seem fundamentally different than “Are you free tomorrow or Sunday?”

The last text was an anti-flake text to see if I should even bother going, I just wanted to force her hand by asking her directly.

Yohami: First – note how none of these girls are asking questions? think about that. So why are you asking them questions?

Pancake: To build rapport. Remember, these girls are all from online. These are not girls I know, or even girls I’ve had a daygame interaction with. Girls are reticent to meet up with a stranger online, they need back and forth and comfort-building and an insight into your life.

Yohami: Building rapport is unattractive, breaking rapport is attractive.

All they need is to feel they are interacting with a guy who has more options than they do, and not with a beta / creep. That is all. You are not building comfort with your questions and stories that go nowhere – they are not investing back. There’s no comfort. They are not coming to you for comfort. They are coming to you for dick. In the moment they are coming to you to ask about the value of your dick, you offer comfort.

You’re asking questions because you want the conversation to keep going and you think it would stall unless you ask things. So you ask something, they reply with a single word. Then you must ask something else. This is ‘interview mode’ and is beta.

Sometimes you interject a little story but serves no purpose, they don’t pay attention to it, you go back to asking things. In all these exchanges they sound like a ‘cool guy’ and you like a groupie.

The desired state of mind is that you act like them and they act like you – that’s what in pickup is called ‘reverse the script’ except it’s not about a script, it’s about value. They have the value and you have none, and you’re chasing so you can get some. But because of the nature of female / male inter-dynamics, by doing so you make yourself non-eligible. (With the only exception of the girls that would fuck you anyway – the girls who feel they are below your status anyway, regardless of your chasing behavior.0

But if you act like you have more value, then the other girls will react to that, and start flipping the script themselves, and ask questions, and chase.

Pancake: Doesn’t work online in my experience. Girls won’t start asking you questions, because they have dozens of other options. If you sit there waiting for them to chase you or ask questions, they will ghost and you’ll never meet up with them.

Yohami: The reason they are not asking questions is they perceive you as low value. You have to act as if you have value. “sit there and wait for them to ask questions” is low value too. How to signal you have value? flirt, tease, take command. You’re doing very little of that.

Pancake: I have zero value online, until I meet up with them in person and prove it. They have literally thousands of Chads they could swipe through (I have swiped through male profiles here and I’m about top 35% in my city as far as looks/profile, and I have maxed out pretty much everything I can).

Yohami: If that was true they wouldn’t be pinging you back. They are talking you you because you do have value. What you’re not doing is acting the part.

“until I meet up in person and prove it”: No, you have nothing to prove to them. They have all to prove to you.

Breakdown:

1

Don’t know what happen before this moment, but Im sure whatever she did, it wasn’t “the best choice she’ll ever have made” so likely you’re giving her free validation for no reason.

If you’re going to give her validation, do so when she’s compliant. Likewise punish anything non-compliant.

The line that follows is weak, “so” “we should” “probably” (this word is shit) “meet up” (wtf are you using meet-up, that’s a semi corporate, informal, non sexual, casual thing, what you’re doing is arranging a fuck date), “at some point” weak and imprecise, “huh”?

So what is good about is that you’re going forward and pushing to meet. But every word there is killing you. Her response is brutal, “probably” and then nothing.

What would be better to set this up? something like this, which is the line that I used all the time:

You: When are you free? I’ll take you out πŸ˜‰

When are you free is a question but the line ends with a call to action. This is not “meet up for coffee tea at some dope place”, the “I’ll take you out” means you’re going to fuck her, and she knows it. And it’s not a question – thus is a fact. When she replies to WHEN she’s telling you when you will fuck her.

Anyway she replied “probably” and left it at that. With an emoticon it would be flirting. Dry like that, it’s brutal and sad.

2

She’s showing VERY little interest, but you remain in interview mode, which means you’re chasing. You ask “are you free tomorrow or sunday“. So what if she says “no”?

If she says no, then what? do you ask “monday or tuesday”? “No.” “wednesday or thursday?” “No.” “friday or saturday… I can go on?”

The point here is all you’re showing is that you’ll accommodate to her. Which is low value.

3

“Tomorrow afternoon” means she’s down to fuck. Here you reply

“That works” is free validation
“Let’s grab a QUICK tea” (fuck man) “or coffee” (yeah why not add more beverages? try also offering orange juice?)
“What time is good for you?”

I even get exhausted with these.

Pancake Mouse: I don’t drink. Also, for most girls nowadays I’m running Blackdragon’s two-date model, which involves a short, one-hour meetup over a drink (at night) or coffee (daytime), then scheduling second date at your place and fucking her. This actually works quite nicely for me because of my logistics (I don’t have any bars near my place to pull girls easily back to), and the fact that I don’t drink.
However, Magnum doesn’t drink either and he said he still does most of his first dates at bars (he also does two-date model), and is just open about the fact that he doesn’t drink. So I’ll probably start doing this.

Yohami: I mean who gives a fuck about tea or coffee, and why do you insert the QUICK word there. I infer that’s some type of false time constraint. I perceived it as something to minimize friction, so it’s a sales move, and feels wrong

4

But SHE IS so down to fuck she’s putting up with it, just note the lack of investment.

To her lack of investment you reply with MORE investment, “dope spot” and volunteer a lot of information.

She’s giving very little and you’re giving a ton.

Now she had enough and goes silent, you keep on the chase / sale

5
Here’s a proposed chat:

—————————-

You: when are you free? I’ll take you out πŸ˜‰ (The call to action is in line 1, there’s no wandering around the bush.)
Her: tomorrow
You: the whole day? you’ve got way too much free time (She’s unspecific like your girls tend to do, I call her on it but don’t go chasing offering more options, instead do a little neg to make her qualify)
Her: haha πŸ™‚ in the afternoon (She offers the afternoon. Afternoon is not sexy, I ignore that and set it for a compromise, 7pm)
You: aight, I know a place. See you at XX at 7pm
Her: I can’t 7pm (She doesn’t offer a raincheck)
You: ? (I reply a single “?”, less text that she sent)
Her: 3 pm works? (She commits a raincheck, offering 3pm date)
You: ehm! sure. dress sexy! (I begrudgingly accept the time change, demand that she does something, but the setup is funny)
Her: always πŸ™‚ (She complies)
You: aight cutie, see you there

There’s a TON of negotiation and back and forth, all in less text than what you normally send on your own. And this is imagining a difficult scenario. Here’s a more likely one

You: when are you free? I’ll take you out πŸ˜‰
Her: (she knows this is about fucking, so the response comes tailored already) Next tuesday
You: nice, see you at XX 8pm, cool?
Her: can’t wait πŸ™‚
You: dress sexy πŸ˜‰

The only questions I’m asking are for compliance. When she offers compliance, it’s rewarded.

 

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10 thoughts on “Yohami breaks down the texts before a flake

  1. Magnum

    Great write up Pancake. Completely agree with Yohami and he breaks things down nicely.

    Your last proposed date pitch is almost there, but you still open with a question. Instead after the initial ping and her response I’d suggest something like, “We should meet up. Something simple like drinks. Day 1 at x time or Day 2 at y time are doable for me at the moment. Let me know what works and I’ll pick us a nice place”. This is straight from Blackdragon and it works.

    Note the first sentence is a command, not a question. Then the second sentence leads her by suggesting two times, and also implies you’re a busy man and the rest of the week is full (something she deep down wants to feel). And then the third and last sentence is a command again. It’s a key difference, pitching in this way shows you lead and also have a “take it or leave it” attitude…two highly attractive things.

    Yes some girls won’t be available on those times. Some will ghost. But you have to keep a true abundance mindset and have a big enough pipeline that you don’t care if she does or doesn’t.

    If a girls accepts one of your timeslots you’re good to go. If she pitches another time that’s also a good sign. If she ghosts then you can roll off 2-4 days and ping her again, and if she doesn’t take those time suggestions you had a weak lead anyway.

    You’re very close here πŸ™‚

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    1. Magnum, meant to ask you this last time we talked: do you leave space between the days you suggest? In a previous conversation you had pointed out the fact that I told a girl I was free the next evening and then the next after that, and that wasn’t ideal because it showed I was too available.

      For the next few months, I will only have 4 days a week free. Either Tuesday/Thursday and Friday/Saturday/Sunday. So often I truly am available a few days in a row.

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      1. Magnum

        Honestly I just make it for whenever I’m free. As a rule of thumb you want to get them out sooner vs later, the longer you wait the more your odds of flaking increase. Time to get a girl out is probably my biggest challenge in our city.

        Also, using the 2 date model, I try and stack first dates which are at a nice bar to take place before 2nd dates. The first dates are only an hour, so I can meet a girl after work. Then head back to my place and have another one over for dinner and close the deal.

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  2. Pancake… Good post. And of course it amuses me that someone else is getting “the full Yohami treatment.”

    Thank you for volunteering to get picked apart… It serves us all.

    I use way too many words when I text, give too much value, too many compliments, etc. I’m not trying to change all that…

    But I AM trying to get with commands. “Let’s get together.” “Meet me at 7. Dinner.” Feels good to me… And is qualitatively different than questions.

    And YES… I do a “two option” model: “let’s get together. Join me for dinner tonight… Or maybe coffee on Saturday.” Something like that. 2 options. Space in-between. “Shotgun” approach to her schedule.

    Girls will still tool us, ghost, reject us… But this is better leading in our part.

    There are no perfect text models… But some are perfect-er.

    Viva Pancake.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. “when are you free? I’ll take you out πŸ˜‰ ”

    Is this really the opener you use on Tinder or any other site? I’ve done the straight-to-the-point openers and they rarely work, well… neither do most openers. Is this the point: That any other opener just gives space to timewasters, and is counterproductive?

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  4. GOOD POST. VERY GOOD POST. A+ to yohami for explaining himself like a champ, and for pancake mouse for explaining himself well too, for being a great student, and for taking the time to write this up..

    this is an EXCELLENT teacher-student conversation and every man starting out in game could learn something from this — including me! i suck at texting and still have the tendency to be too accomodating and considerate. not enough AUTHORITY in my texting.

    and finally, GOOD JOB also goes to nash for tweeting out this link! fuck yeah, #comradery baby.

    Liked by 1 person

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