Hard Case

Today, I found myself asking my wings: “What ‘tactics’ can I use to make a girl more compliant?”

Yes, I, a grown man, was robotically asking a group of other grown men “How can I get a girl to like me?” The irony was not lost on me.

This spurred a tidal wave of thoughts and emotions I’ve been having recently about the apparent incongruence between how good I and other people think I am in Game versus how good I actually am.

My skillset disparity is very, very odd. See, with most guys that are bad at Game, you can immediately tell, because they present as weak, often effeminate nerds. I am nothing of the sort. Guys that have just seen photos of me usually say “Damn, that guy fucks.” I mean, I’m not the Chaddest of Chads by any means, but I do look rather masculine and dominant.

I’m also sociable, so I can fool most people. I’ve winged with so many guys that have remarked, “Damn, your game is solid,” then I shake my head and reveal my numbers, and how bad they are. How many girls ghost me, how I don’t pull at nightgame… it’s almost a meme at this point.

I’m a hard case in a soft shell.

It’s not that I think I’m a hard case at learning compared to most guys, I think I’m just starting from way behind where I thought I was in many areas.

On the outside, it appears I have a lot of experience. Fucking 94 different women is no small feat. But the secret is that I only slept with maybe eight of those women more than twice. I’ve never had a girlfriend, or anything resembling a romantic relationship.

I’ve been with a lot of different women, but the depth of my relationship with each of those women never exceeded something very shallow. Meaning that I never truly assembled the knowledge of how to read and understand women.

Even the most beta guy in the world, if he had a girlfriend for a year, probably has more hours invested being emotional and close with a woman than I do. Think about that. Yeah, he may have been developing bad habits and trust me, I’m glad that I was “born alpha” (or detached), but the fact is I still have a lot of growth to do on the emotional side. It’s no surprise that my wings who are more on the emotional side of things are so much better at retention.

In November, I started the quest to become advanced at cold approach in one year. At the time, I knew it was a bit of a folly to think I could make such progress in what I consider the most complex skill of all time, but now, two and a half months in, I feel that I may be further away than I had initially thought.

Adding to this is the sneaking realization that I may be incongruent, and it’s leaking into my interactions with women. People generally don’t notice until they watch me interact for quite some time, but I put on an act in my approaches and dates, and because I’m not refined at it, a fundamental incongruence results which scares the girl off.

Because I don’t authentically, romantically desire women the way other guys do, I often just go through the motions, dryly saying the lines, hoping that the women just decide to sleep with me of their own accord. This only works some of the time.

I’m receiving two separate, and completely conflicting, pieces of advice to go about fixing this:

Option A: forget structure for a while, and open only the girls I truly desire to open, saying only what authentically comes to mind

Option B: go deeper into character, and perfect my role as a “seducer”, leaving logical Pancake Mouse behind

I don’t know which option to choose.

Who am I? I don’t know. I guess I have a lot of things to ponder.

12 thoughts on “Hard Case

  1. lioncheesekleopatra83851

    Option A works for me, (smart) girls can see the authenticity from a mile away in my experience…and they love when a guy is authentic and unique. though this may come along with attraction from them to your authenticity. so it is a tough road to take since this can develop feelings on both ends, but it works. Option B may work but as I have also learned, you get what you put in. So if you continue the play the seducer role, you may just find a woman who is also “playing” you…for the wrong reasons. Just some thoughts! love these posts btw 🙂


    1. The issue is that I’m not actually attracted that much to smart, authentic girls, as odd as that may sound.

      My natural authenticity attracts the nomad, progressive, liberal arts college types, but I don’t like those kind of girls.

      This is why I try to change myself. But fail to do so, because my inner character is very strong, and I’m fighting against decades of societal programming.

      Liked by 1 person

  2. Rio Foster

    2.5 months daygaming is nothing, you are still a beginner. You are expecting too much from yourself and you are too hard on yourself. You need probably 1 year to get to a intermediate level. Just enjoy the process. Ultimately, this is by far the most important: Enjoy it.


    1. > 2.5 months daygaming is nothing, you are still a beginner

      This is actually a hot comment.

      Pancake has fooked ~100 girls (most of them from a very mechanical use of Tinder, which created a lot of his assumptions), but… his insistence on his “theories,” while not actually getting girls to come back for more… shows he just doesn’t actually get it yet. Which is okay. It’s very okay. But when you don’t get it…

      You’re a kind of “beginner.” And beginners should have simple goals. They should “be seen and never heard.” They should experience the SMP, not try to define it. They should be less certain.

      Pancake: Burn it all down. Pick a very simple date model. Go practice for a year before you make another “conclusion.” If you would do that, you would have times to NOTICE WHAT IS THERE, instead of trying to impose “Melman’s Very Good Theories” (or NYC Thug Guy Game)/etc on the girls. Its not working.

      Many beginners do better than you. Maybe not in raw lays… but in “being liked by girls.” Because they are humble. Their eyes are open, not “slammed shut” with certainty… and getting… constantly ghosted.

      Go be a beginner. “Only Don’t Know” would be a good starting part of you.

      What you “know” is your problem.


  3. Atake.

    Yo dude, I feel like I see you on almost every pickup forum out there these days from Girlschase to Good Looking Loser and KYIL. I think you are losing your head in all of this because you are way too deep into the PUA community. What you need to do is find one good forum, post field reports on it, and then share them with the guys. KYIL is probably the best one for you.

    As for getting better at reading women, you just seem to come off as an outcast from your PUA interactions. I think you need to get better at just socializing in general instead of coming off as a sperg. Try to chill with guys from KYIL who are naturals or just normal people in general. Watch a soccer game at a bar and have a beer like a normal person to just get a feel for it or join some soccer team for intramural.

    Your issue is that you are way too deep into PUA forums right now and sound like someone who isn’t as socially connected.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. > you are losing your head in all of this because you are way too deep into the PUA community

      Yes. As some guys have already told you.

      And not just “too deep,” but “too certain,” and from ideas based on guys that are sending you down the wrong path.

      > But the secret is that I only slept with maybe eight of those women more than twice

      Being capable of dating, enjoying it, and having girls enjoy you, would demonstrate you had figured something meaningful out. If you dismiss dating (not efficient enough) – you, Sir, are a BAD OFFER for most healthy girls. There is not getting around that.

      “Just date more” is not the answer. But when you are naturally dating more, you will have found the path. It’ll be a byproduct of you finding your way.

      Are the guys you’re studying leading you there? Is Melman teaching you to enjoy girls on dates? Is JMLUV (whatever) a healthy model for you… is that guy actually an attractive man? Is he? You can’t see this?

      I have been arguing with you on these points for weeks. And you have dismissed every thing I have said… even as several guys in this thread can ID the same issues.

      Pancake – as gently has I can: Your NYC write up is horrifying (is that gentle?). Almost every conclusion you make is a huge red flag about you. And I bet you can specifically source the “PUA” that helped cement those ideas in your head. You’re probably die on any of those hills right now… even as you declare your path is “not working.”

      You have been doing something close to pouring your heart out, week after week, because YOU can see something isn’t quite right. Yet, you’re 100% certain about all your great theories. And yet… certain patterns persist.

      I am not saying “just be more authentic, bro” (as if it was seasoning you could sprinkle in).

      I think you should burn everything down. Forget everything you “know” so certainly. Please God, forget all those Melmanisms. Those freaks ARE getting you laid, but there is nothing attractive/healthy/normal about that style of Game.

      Start over, admit you’re a beginner (in many ways), give up being like the NYC Thugs you are so certain have it all figured out. Drop all of your conclusions about how “the declining effectiveness of daygame” (which isn’t a technique), about the retard London Daygamers (many of the beginners from that school totally outperform you on most metrics) and “lookmaxxxing” (which is missing the point of being a solid guy), etc, etc.

      Go back to the basic formula of: APPROACH, be as real as you can, take number ( when if feels real, not like a horny robot), don’t DOUBLE OPEN girls, don’t try for SDLs, don’t overgame/over sexualize, and TRY TO DATE. Aim for dates. Aim for sex on the third date. That is normal. That is what normal, healthy people do. I fuck faster than that sometimes… but until you can do healthy, don’t aim for “super charged.”

      You have fucked 10X the girls most guys will ever fuck. Fucking is not your problem. But “getting girls to like you” might be – and it would be hard of them to like the guy that wrote that NYC write up. It’s repulsive, man. The endless focus on “efficiency” is repulsive. Fucking as fast as possible is not the same as being attractive. Look at that.

      You have the wrong role models, feeding you the wrong ideas, so you’re Mr “Fast Pull,” and girls are “timewasters” (when they are not cunts), and you don’t see how none of this is making you an attractive man. Despite your obvious value, you are a BAD OFFER to these girls… thus your stats.

      Yeah… you are way too deep in PUA (which I love)… and the wrong part of PUA (you love the retarded losers, and reject anyone real). And you will never “optimize” your way on this path. This path is delivering for you… if you don’t like what you’re getting, sober up and change course.


    2. I understand why you would make this read. I’ve gotten remarks from guys who have met me in real life that were surprised that I am who I am given the Pancake Mouse persona.

      It’s not accurate, though. I’m a social natural and consummate leader of men. I just don’t understand women.


  4. Pingback: Tuesday, January 18, 2022 – Miami – Pancake Mouse Field Reports

  5. Excellent points from everyone in the comments. I just want to add a few notes on the nuances of diagnosing your game, advice from wings etc.

    The funny thing about guys in pickup is whenever we’re asked to give feedback, we’ll throw our own personal model of what we identify with in pickup at you, and the parts of our models that don’t line up with your personality will be re-contextualized as your inner game issues, your limitations, your sociopathy etc.

    This is tough to deal with, because, even with the best of intentions, you may not get accurate feedback from people in the community, or at least not feedback that’s specific to you, because any advice I give you will be subconsciously geared towards nudging you to become more like the archetype of “guy with good game/social skills” I have in my head.

    So, instead, I’d urge you to figure out what you like about game, what turns you on about being in pickup, what about it would be something that’s be a win for you irrespective of the metrics. For some people, pickup helps them be more emotionally free, for some, its about overcoming habitual shyness, some guys enjoy thinking of it as a game of social chess, and some guys are in it just to satiate their desire for variety.

    If you share the same infields, audios with each of these character types, you’ll be given different lists of what you’re doing wrong, where you can improve etc. Guys whose model of game is built around ‘getting out of your own way’ will diagnose you as not being real enough (and they’re probably right). Guys who see game as a way to liberate themselves socially will advise you to “take it easy, not be so damn autistic, learn to live a little, exercise your release muscles” (and they’re probably right, too). Guys who like the logical side of pickup will bombard you with their own manifestos of what specific technical sticking points you have. Guys who are in relationships will tell you all about how its the highest paradigm, and stop being so shallow, and guys who are doing ‘beast mode’ will tell you to STFU and go open that mixed set across the street.

    All this is good – – you’re getting a lot of inputs. Now the question is, how do you know what information to take on board? IMO it has to do with personal taste. Find out what you really like about game, then look at the advice you’ve been given, and filter out the things that take you in a direction you don’t find engaging enough psychologically, emotionally or logically.

    You’re not going to be good at everything – – in pickup, as with everything else, pick your battles. Figure out what you love about game, develop that, integrate it into your life and then get back to living, You don’t have to be a master PUA, you just have to discover things about it that you find engaging.
    This sounds very “meta” but it has practical implications: once you’ve decided what you’re going to focus on, you can then filter out everything else, trim the fat from your game, learn faster, get the results you want, have the type of relationships and interactions you want, and you won’t be in this state of uncertainty about what you “ought to do”. On the other hand, if you’re not sure about what you like and dislike about pickup, you’ll just have way too many things to field test to make any real progress.


    1. It’s remarkable how similarly we think. Yes, I’ve been dealing with this throughout my entire career in the game. Guys love to just typical mind fallacy their way into any advice without understanding someone else’s context.

      I give very little weight to guys that haven’t gamed with me in person. I’ve found that the misconceptions of who I actually am based on how I write are way too strong.

      I will write that post soon about why I do this.


  6. Jiron Tan

    PancakeMouse, I may not know much about you at all, but I reckon you’re asking the wrong question to begin with. Or at least, the phrasing of your question puts you in a bad position to start from.

    The moment you ask for tactics you can use, you’re going to receive specific advice based on that. Don’t get me wrong… tactics can work. But ultimately, it’s not the tactics that the girl likes. It’s You.

    So I may not know anything about you at all, but this is not about skillset. Not to say that your entire being is unlikable. But something about you is not pulling them in (as opposed to pushing them away).

    I reckon daysofgame made a very good point about having to start from scratch, although I don’t agree with him that you need to “practice for a year”. I do believe that under the right guidance, you can definitely get better faster, but I really doubt pickup theories are the way.

    For a start though, I do believe you should not approach women unless you can stop yourself from “going through the motions”. Think about it from the woman’s perspective. She has a guy approach her, and he doesn’t even seem like he’s interested in talking to her. Why would she wanna invest any time in you at all?

    Also, you’re trying to get good at a skill that is probably the least used method to meeting women. Instead of doing that, why not have 1 lifestyle activity that’s female-centric? It would allow you to meet them easier. Hope that helps.


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